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Autor Poruka
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PostPoslato: Uto Okt 17, 2006 1:16 pm 
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Draga Seli ,


u celoj ovoj nasoj debati najbitnije je da je mala princeza zdrava i zadovoljna !!! Klasicna vakcina u primeni je vec decenijama unazad i tesko da ce Pentaxim u skorijoj buducnosti zauzeti njeno mesto , naravno iskljucivo zbog cene , 3100 dinara x 4 doze po detetu - zaista deluje kao science fiction za Ministarstvo zdravlja RS . Komplikacije koje klasicna vakcina moze izazvati su u principu retke , ali svakako nisu ZANEMARLJIVE , pa ipak bolje je dete zastiti nego ga prepustiti slucaju , ma koliko to paradoksalno zvucalo !


Sto se tice prednosti unutrasnjost - metropola i obrnuto , vise i nisam bas tako sigurna ko je u prednosti , odnosno zaostatku . Cini mi se da su pedijatri u unutrasnjosti mozda malo vise nepoverljivi prema novim vakcinama jer ih daleko redje daju malisanima pa verovatno i nemaju realnu sliku o prednostima novih u odnosu na postojece vakcine . Zato ih u principu i ne ''osudjujem'' , ali i ne hvalim smatrajuci da su izvori informacijama dostupni svima , a zdravstvenim radnicima bi trebalo da budu prioritet !!!


Puno Vas pozdravljam !!!


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Uto Okt 17, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Zaboravila sam jos nesto da dodam !


Misljenja sam da je moderator ovog FORUMA isti kreirao kako bi ljudi medju sobom razmenjivali korisne informacije i iskustva . Posebno me je iznenadila , pogodila , razocarala ... ma ne mogu ni da definisem osecanje ... polemika izmedju clanova foruma u potpuno neprijateljskom tonu u onim situacijama kada nam se misljenja razlikuju . Svako misljenje i iskustvo bi trebalo da bude stav pojedinca koji on zeli da razmeni sa nama odnosno mi sa njim u cilju sticanja svesti o nekom problemu i nacinima njegovog resavanja . Neko je pristalica homeopatije - neko medikamentozne terapije , neko ortopedskih cipelica - neko ulozaka , neko vakcina - neko ne ! Poenta je da razmenimo iskustva , a da pri tom ne vredjamo i osudjujemo jedni drugi usled dijametralnog razmimoilazenja stavova . Svakako bi bilo korisnije kada bi na tudjim iskustvima , odnosno greskama UCILI i pomagali jedni drugima !


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Uto Okt 17, 2006 1:29 pm 
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Pridružio se: Čet Okt 05, 2006 11:57 pm
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Draga Nataša!
Iskreno govoreći nisam bila sigurna ni da li je naš pedijatar čula za ovu vakcinu, ali ipak je čula. Što se njene informisanosti tiče to je strašno, ona je za savet pitala pedijatra koji je bio pedijatar još u vreme kada sam ja bila beba, a dan pre toga je bila na seminaru čija su tema bile vakcine?!? Šta reći??? Zamolila je decu da pretraže na internetu nešto o Pentaxim vakcini i oni nisu ništa pronašli! A tek da si videla kako je dete okrenula na stomak da ga pregleda! STRAŠNO! Ali šta je tu je! Najvažnije je da je sve prošlo bez problema. Sada prelazimo sa teme vakcina na temu žitarica i tamo sam videla od tebe korisne savete i šta da ti kažem, zaista si divna!!!
Puno pozdrava! :lol:


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Uto Okt 17, 2006 1:46 pm 
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Hvala puno Seli ! Sad sam se postidela :oops: ! Salim se naravno . Ja OBOZAVAM decu i nadam se da cu pored dva decaka u buducnosti postati mama i jednoj maloj princezi ! Nisam od roditelja koji robuju stereotipima i nadam se da mi se to nece obiti o glavu . Deca su tu da ih razumemo , nesebicno volimo , negujemo i uzivamo u svakom trenutku s' njima provedenom , jer na kraju i pocetku svega ona su tu kao plod nasih ljubavi , ma kakve one bile , sveprisutna u nasim zivotima kao najveca radost , lek za svaku tugu , kao bica zbog kojih se trudimo da svaki dan budemo bolji jer ona to zasluzuju !!!


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Uto Okt 17, 2006 2:22 pm 
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Tako kratko a sadržajno! Slažem se u potpunosti i malo sam se rasplakala!


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Sre Okt 25, 2006 8:22 pm 
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vmilka je napisao:
Otisao nam Berluskoni, dosao Prodi i sad je sasvim drugi kalendar vakcinacine-zalosno.


vmilka, možeš li da napišeš nešto više o tome kako sada izgleda kalendar obaveznih vakcina. Pre svega me zanima da li postoje promene u tome koje su vakcine obavezne a koje preporučene.

natasino je napisao:
U prilog svemu napred navedenom ide i cinjenica da NIJEDNA , ali bas NIJEDNA vakcina namenjena deci nije povucena iz upotrebe , niti je prestala proizvodnja iste , a u upotrebi su vec decenijama !!!


natasino, shvati ovo kao dobronameran komentar. Neko ko je pretražio internet nikada ne bi napisao gornju tvrdnju. Sve o tome koje vakcine su bile uvedene pa povučene, pa koje su bile zamenjene, boljim i to uz kakve komentare, zaista sve može da se nađe na internetu. Na žalost .... ili na sreću :-?


Vrh
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vmilka je napisao:
Otisao nam Berluskoni, dosao Prodi i sad je sasvim drugi kalendar vakcinacine-zalosno.


vmilka, možeš li da napišeš nešto više o tome kako sada izgleda kalendar obaveznih vakcina. Pre svega me zanima da li postoje promene u tome koje su vakcine obavezne a koje preporučene.

natasino je napisao:
U prilog svemu napred navedenom ide i cinjenica da NIJEDNA , ali bas NIJEDNA vakcina namenjena deci nije povucena iz upotrebe , niti je prestala proizvodnja iste , a u upotrebi su vec decenijama !!!


natasino, shvati ovo kao dobronameran komentar. Neko ko je pretražio internet nikada ne bi napisao gornju tvrdnju. Sve o tome koje vakcine su bile uvedene pa povučene, pa koje su bile zamenjene boljim i to uz kakve komentare, zaista sve može da se nađe na internetu. Na žalost .... ili na sreću :-?


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Čet Okt 26, 2006 9:35 am 
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UKINUTO I MODIFIKOVANO u svakom slucaju ne moze biti isto !

Kalendar vakcinacije koji se danas primenjuje (osim Act HIB i hep B) primenjivao se i kada smo mi , barem ja bila dete !


Postoje vakcine koje su ukinute , odnosno koje su zbog sadrzaja zive u njima povucene iz proizvodnje kao sto je bio slucaj sa vakcinom protiv gripa . Sto se tice obaveznih vakcina , ja bih volela da znam koja je ukinuta u poslednjih 30 godina koliko ih ja imam . Ovo naravno vazi za Srbiju i bivse zemlje SFRJ ! Ne mozete kao reper uzeti razvijene zemlje poput USA , Australije ili pojedinih zemalja EU . Vakcine iz njihovog asortimana nasa deca i ne primaju zbog naravno PARA !!! Zalosno je sto su Act Hib i Hep B uvedeni kao obavezne vakcine tek pre godinu , tj. dve .

Mislim da se nismo bas dobro razumele oko te tvrdnje da NIJEDNA VAKCINA NIJE UKINUTA . Pa zahvaljujuci njima su i iskorenjene bolesti poput polijomijelitisa ili recimo velikih boginja , pa se naravno ni vakcinisanje vise ne primenjuje kao deo redovne imunizacije . Vise se ni BCG ne daje na rodjenju deci u nekim zemljama (ima na netu gde) . Generalno , sve vakcine koje su pokrivale odredjene bolesti pre 30 godina i danas su u upotrebi . Neke od njih su modifikovane , preciscene i samim tim unapredjene sto je i normalno imajuci u vidu neminovan napredak nauke i tehnike . Sporni su SVAKAKO proizvodjaci koji plasiraju odredjene vakcine na trziste . Tu nastaje problem oko povlacenja sa trzista i zaustavljanja proizvodnje . Petovalentnu vakcinu proizvodi i Aventis Pasteur i Glaxo Smith Kline i jos X farmaceutskih kuca . E , tu treba praviti razliku , jer one svakako nisu zanemarljive !!!


U svakom slucaju , svaki dobronamerni komentar je izuzetno koristan za sve nas koji posecujemo ovaj forum . I nadam se da ce ih biti jos puno , jer je to jedini nacin da ostanemo ''u koraku'' sa svetskim trendovima i domacom praksom .


Pozdrav ,


Natasa


Vrh
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PostPoslato: Čet Okt 26, 2006 8:10 pm 
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natasino je napisao:
Pa zahvaljujuci njima su i iskorenjene bolesti poput polijomijelitisa ili recimo velikih boginja , pa se naravno ni vakcinisanje vise ne primenjuje kao deo redovne imunizacije


natasino, upravo na ovo sam htela da ti skrenem pažnju. Meni ne smeta da ti, ili bilo ko drugi, pišeš samo pozitivne stvari o vakcinama. Zaista ne. Mislim da svako odluku o tome treba da donese za sebe i svoju porodicu i da živi s njom kakva god da je jer ona nosi ogromnu odgovornost. Ali čini mi se da si čitala samo jednu stranu, pa ni nju ne baš detaljno, jer bi naišla na podatke (a za sve podatke je još najbolji američki CDC jer kad tamo počneš da kopaš možeš da naiđeš na pravo "blago" informacija) na primer o tome kako je protiv velikih boginja bilo vakcinisano 10% svetske populacije. Dakle, veliki mit je da su velike boginje iskorenjene zahvaljujući vakcinaciji!

O tome koje vakcine su ukinute, na našu sreću, možemo da pratimo u tim razvijenim zemljama. Na veliku nesreću njihove dece. Kod promenjenih vakcina postoje dve stvari. Prvo, nove vakcine zamenjuju stare koje su svojevremeno takođe bile nešto "super najbolje", a drugo, zamena stare vakcine je praćena priznanjem stručnjaka koliko je ta stara bila zapravo loša, a što je bilo poricano sve dok je ona bila u upotrebi. To su tužne priče, a u igri su životi i zdravlje naše dece. Takve izveštaje stručnjaka ćemo za koju godinu čitati o ovim trenutno najboljim vakcinama koje postoje.


Vrh
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UH , OVO BAS JESTE TEMA ZA POLEMIKU ! Izmedju prevenar vakcine (koju je moj sin inace primio i nije imao nikakvih propratnih pojava) i meningitisa sa svim njegovim propratnim manifestacijama , ukljucujuci i sepsu ja sam ipak izabrala vakcinu . Mislim da bi i roditelji devojcice iz Nisa koja je preminula pre svog drugog rodjendana upravo zbog infekcije hemofilusom , a koja je mogla biti izbegnuta vakcinacijom , posle pretprljene nesrece vakcinisali svoje dete da su znali sve prednosti i MANE Act Hib vakcine , tj. da je imao ko da ih uputi da kupe ovu vakcinu za 800 dinara !!!!!


Stav ''Za Vakcine'' vs ''Protiv vakcina'' uvek ce biti tema za POLEMIKU sirokih razmera !!! I treba da bude , ja se potpuno slazem sa Vama !!!

Ali ne treba insistirati da se neko ubedi da li je OPRAVDANO ili NEOPRAVDANO imunizovati DETE !!! Roditelji i pedijatri snose ODGOVORNOST , ali DETE TRPI POSLEDICE - A TO SE PRIZNACETE NE MOZE ZANEMARITI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sto se tice www.cdc.gov , www.who.int , www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/immunization.html , www.immunizationinfo.org/ , www.cispimmunize.org/ , www.vaccineinformation.org , www.immunofacts.com/ , www.kidshealth.org/parent/general/body/ ... tions.html ... na njima zaista ima puno informacija o vakcinama A JA SAM IH SVE VEOMA DETALJNO PROCITALA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evo i odgovora na najcesca pitanja (ukoliko nekom treba prevod , neka se javi) :


Since the start of widespread vaccinations in the United States, the number of cases of some formerly common childhood illnesses like measles and diphtheria have declined dramatically. Immunizations have protected millions of children from potentially deadly diseases and saved thousands of lives. In fact, certain diseases crop up so rarely now that parents sometimes ask if vaccines are even necessary anymore.

This is just one common misconception about immunizations. The truth is, most diseases that can be prevented by vaccines still exist in the world, even in the United States, although they occur rarely. The reality is that vaccinations still play a crucial role in keeping children healthy.

Unfortunately, misinformation about vaccines could make some parents decide not to immunize their children, putting them and others at a greater risk for illness. To better understand the benefits and risks of vaccines, here are a few common questions.

What do immunizations do?
Vaccines work by preparing your child's body to fight illness. Each immunization (given through a shot your child receives) contains either a dead or a weakened germ, or parts of it, that cause a particular disease.

Your child's body practices fighting the disease by making antibodies that recognize specific parts of that germ. This permanent or long-standing response means that if your child is ever exposed to the actual disease, the antibodies are already in place and his or her body knows how to combat it, so your child doesn't get sick. This is called immunity.

Will my child's immune system be weaker by relying on a vaccine?
No, the immune system makes antibodies against a germ, like the chickenpox virus, whether it encounters it naturally or is exposed to it through a vaccine.

Will the immunization give my child the very disease it's supposed to prevent?This is one of parents' most common concerns about vaccines. However, it's impossible to get the disease from any vaccine made with dead (killed) bacteria or viruses or just part of the bacteria or virus.

Only those immunizations made from weakened (also called attenuated) live viruses - like the chickenpox (varicella) or measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine - could possibly make a child develop a mild form of the disease, but it's almost always much less severe than the illness that occurs when a person is infected with the disease-causing virus itself.

The risk of disease from * SPAM * is extremely small. One live virus vaccine that's no longer used in the United States is the oral polio vaccine (OPV). The success of the polio * SPAM * program has made it possible to replace the live virus vaccine with a killed virus form known as the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). This change has completely eliminated the possibility of polio disease being caused by immunization in the United States.

Why should I have my child immunized if all the other children in school are immunized?It is true that a single child's chance of catching a disease is low if everyone else is immunized. Yet if one person thinks about skipping vaccines, chances are that other people are thinking the same thing. And each child who isn't immunized gives these highly contagious diseases one more chance to spread.

This actually happened between 1989 and 1991 when an epidemic of measles broke out in the United States. Lapsing rates of immunization among preschoolers led to a sharp jump in the number of cases of measles, as well as the number of deaths and children with permanent brain damage. Similar outbreaks of pertussis (whooping cough) struck Japan and the United Kingdom in the 1970s after immunization rates declined.

Although * SPAM * rates are fairly high in the United States, there's no reliable way of knowing if everyone your child comes into contact with has been vaccinated, particularly now that so many people travel to and from other countries. As the 1999 outbreak of encephalitis from West Nile virus in New York illustrated, a disease can hop halfway around the world very quickly because of international travel. So, the best way to protect your child is through immunization.

Why should I subject my child to a painful shot if vaccines aren't 100% effective?Few things in medicine work 100% of the time, but vaccines are one of the most effective weapons we have against disease - they work in 85% to 99% of cases. They greatly reduce your child's risk of serious illness (particularly when more and more people use them) and give diseases fewer chances to take hold in a population.

It can be difficult to watch your child get a shot, but the short-term pain is nothing compared to suffering through a potentially deadly bout of diphtheria, pertussis, or measles.
Why do kids who are healthy, active, and eating well need to be immunized?
Vaccinations are intended to help keep healthy children healthy. Because vaccines work by protecting the body before disease strikes, if you wait until your child gets sick, it will be too late for the vaccine to work. The best time to immunize children is when they're healthy.

Will immunizations cause a bad reaction in my child?
The most common reactions to vaccines are minor and include:

redness and swelling where the shot was given
fever
rash
Although in rare cases immunizations can trigger seizures or severe allergic reactions, the risk of these is much lower than that of catching the disease if a child is not immunized. Every year, millions of children are safely vaccinated, and almost all of them experience no significant side effects.

Meanwhile, research continually improves the safety of immunizations. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) now advises doctors to use a diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis vaccine that includes only specific parts of the pertussis cell instead of the entire killed cell. This vaccine, called DTaP has been associated with even fewer side effects like high temperatures and seizures.

Do immunizations or thimerosal cause autism?
Numerous studies have found no link between vaccines and autism (a developmental disorder that's characterized by mild to severe impairment of communication and social interaction skills). Likewise, a groundbreaking 2004 report from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) found that thimerosal (an organic mercury compound that's been used as a preservative in vaccines since the 1930s) does not cause autism either. Still, many parents have opted not to have their children immunized, putting them at great risk of contracting deadly diseases.

The measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, especially, has come under fire over the years, despite many scientific reports indicating that there's no clear evidence linking the vaccine to autism.

In 2004, a long-disputed 1998 study that suggested a possible link between autism and the MMR vaccine was retracted. Even before the 1998 study was retracted, not only had other studies found no link, but the controversial 1998 study was rejected by all major health organizations including the AAP, the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the World Health Organization (WHO).

There's also no reason to believe that thimerosal is linked to autism, according to the 2004 IOM report. Nevertheless, in an effort to reduce childhood exposure to mercury and other heavy metals, thimerosal began being removed from kids' vaccines in 1999. Now, vaccines for infants and young children contain no or very little thimerosal. And recent studies have not shown any cognitive and behavioral problem for babies who may have received these thimerosal-containing vaccines.

So what could explain the increased rates of autism in recent years? For one thing, there's a broader definition of autism that can be applied to more children who show varying degrees of symptoms. A greater awareness of the condition among health professionals has also led to more diagnoses.

And although the number of children diagnosed with autism may be increasing, the rates of MMR * SPAM * are not. In London, diagnosis of autistic disorders has been on the rise since 1979 but rates of MMR * SPAM * haven't increased since routine MMR * SPAM * began in 1988.

In addition, the average age of diagnosis of autism has been found to be the same in both children who have and who have not received the MMR vaccine. What many researchers are discovering is that subtle symptoms of autism are often present before a child's first birthday - sometimes even in early infancy - but often go unnoticed until the symptoms are more obvious to parents.

Wasn't there a problem with the rotavirus vaccine?
Rotavirus is one of the most common causes of diarrhea in young children. In 1999, a rotavirus vaccine was taken off the market because it was linked to an increased risk for intussusception, a type of bowel obstruction, in young infants. However, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recently approved a new, different rotavirus vaccine called RotaTeq, which has been studied in more than 70,000 children, and has not been found to have this increased risk. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has recommended that it be included on the regular immunization schedule. This rotavirus vaccine will be given to infants as a liquid by mouth during regular * SPAM * times at age 2 months, 4 months, and 6 months. RotaTeq has been found to prevent approximately 75% of cases of rotavirus infection and 98% of severe cases. Your child's doctor will have the most current information.

Do immunizations cause sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), multiple sclerosis, or other problems?
There are concerns, many of which circulate on the Internet, linking some vaccines to multiple sclerosis, SIDS, and other problems. To date, several studies have failed to show any connection between immunizations and these conditions. The number of SIDS cases has actually fallen by almost 50% in recent years, whereas the number of vaccines administered yearly continues to rise.

Why does my child need to be immunized if the disease has been eliminated?
Diseases that are rare or nonexistent in the United States, like measles and polio, still exist in other parts of the world. Doctors continue to vaccinate against them because it's easy to come into contact with illnesses through travel. That includes anyone who may not be properly immunized who's coming into the United States, as well as Americans traveling overseas.

If immunization rates fell, a disease introduced by someone visiting from another country could cause serious damage in an unprotected population. In 1994, polio was brought to Canada from India, but it didn't spread because so many people had been immunized. It's only safe to stop vaccinations for a particular disease when that disease has been eradicated worldwide, as in the case of smallpox.

How long does immunity last after getting a vaccine?
A few vaccines, like the one for measles or the series for hepatitis B, may make you immune for your entire life. Others, like tetanus, last for many years but require periodic shots (boosters) for continued protection against the disease.

The pertussis vaccine also does not give lifelong immunity, and that may be one reason why there are still outbreaks of the disease. And although pertussis isn't a serious problem for older kids and adults, it can be spread to infants and young children who may develop whooping cough. Because of this, adolescents now receive a pertussis boosters along with the tetanus and diphtheria booster (Tdap) - an important step in controlling this infection.

It's important to keep a record of your child's shots so you'll know when he or she is due for a booster. It's also a good idea to get the flu vaccine each year - if it isn't in short supply. Even if you or your child may have gotten the vaccine last year, that won't protect either of you from getting the flu this year because the protection wears off and flu viruses constantly change. That's why the vaccine is updated each year to include the most current strains of the virus.

The flu vaccine reduces the average person's chances of catching the flu by up to 80% during the season. But because the flu vaccine doesn't prevent infection with all of the viruses that can cause flu-like symptoms, getting the vaccine isn't a guarantee that you or your child won't get sick during the season. But even if someone who's gotten the shot gets the flu, symptoms will usually be fewer and milder.

Are vaccines continuously studied and improved because they're unsafe?
The Food and Drug Administration's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research is the government agency responsible for regulating vaccines in the United States. Working in conjunction with the CDC and the National Institutes of Health (NIH), they continuously research and monitor vaccine safety and effectiveness.

New vaccines are licensed only after thorough laboratory studies and clinical trials are conducted, and safety monitoring continues even after a vaccine has been approved. There have been - and will continue to be - improvements (such as those that have already been made to the DTaP and polio vaccine, for example) that will minimize potential side effects and ensure the best possible safety standards.

Where can I go to get affordable immunizations for my child?
Clearly, vaccines are one of the best tools we have to keep children healthy, but the effectiveness of immunization programs depends on availability. You can receive inexpensive or free vaccines through many local public health clinics and community health centers, and campaigns to vaccinate children often hold free * SPAM * days.

A program called Vaccines for Children covers Medicaid-eligible, uninsured, Alaskan and Native American populations, and some underinsured children for routine immunizations up to 18 years of age. The vaccines are provided by the government and administered in the doctor's office. However, the doctor's visit itself is not covered (unless the child has insurance, including Medicaid). But some public health clinics may cover both the visit and the immunizations.

Where can I find out more about immunizations?
Read Your Child's Immunizations for details about each recommended immunization. Also, the CDC's National Immunization Program maintains a website dedicated to helping consumers evaluate information about vaccinations from sources in the media and on the Internet.

Another good source of information about immunizations, including which ones your child needs, is your child's doctor. Working together, you can help keep your child healthy and happy.

Updated and reviewed by: Larissa Hirsch, MD
Date reviewed: August 2006



JA KAO MAJKA ZAISTA NE BIH MOGLA DA GLEDAM DA MI DETE UMIRE OD BOLESTI NA KOJE SAVREMENA MEDICINA IMA ODGOVOR , POPUT VELIKOG KASLJA ili NE DAJ BOZE POLIJOMIJELITISA KOJI JESTE ISKORENJEN U VECINI RAZVIJENIH ZEMALJA ISKLJUCIVO ZAHVALJUCI VAKCINI I TO JE NE MOGUCE OSPORITI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



ZAKLJUCAK JE DA MI KAO RODITELJI IMAMO PRAVO IZBORA , MA KAKAV ON BIO !!!


Naravno , cinjenica je da su registrovani brojni slucajevi nezeljenih dejstava vakcina i to kao ni njihova deletvornost nije sporna tema . Sve sto koristimo u svakodnevnom zivotu ima svoje dobre i lose strane , to je valjda jasno . Pitanje bi glasilo da li je neznatan procenat dece koja su dokazano , (ZNACI GOVORIMO SAMO O CINJENICAMA , ne propalim EKSPERIMENTIMA) , imale posledice posle vakcinacije , makar u taj mali procenat uslo i moje dete , dovoljan razlog da ne VAKCINISEMO decu protiv onih bolesti , koje eventualnom epidemijom , ili PANDEMIJOM mogu ugroziti PLANETU ???????????????????????????????????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mi zivimo u XXI veku , ali ne zaboravimo da je tuberkuloza harala pocetkom XX veka , bas kao i polijomijelitis pre 30-tak godina ili PERTUSIS ....


NEMA POTREBE SPORITI SE OKO VAKCINA , PREPUSTIMO ODLUKU PEDIJATRIMA i EVENTUALNO IH UPITAJMO CIME SU VAKCINISALI SVOJU DECU ?!


IMAJMO U VIDU I SVE USLOVE I OKRUZENJE U KOME ZIVIMO , POTENCIJALNE IZVORE ZARAZE , SVEST LJUDI KOJI NAS OKRUZUJU O SOPSTVENOJ I HIGIJENI OKOLINE , PA ONDA DONESIMO OBJEKTIVNU ODLUKU !!!


I , DA , DA NE ZABORAVIM , APSURDNO JE CAK I RASPRAVLJATI O SVETSKIM STANDARDIMA VS SRBIJI , GDE SE VAKCINE PROIZVODE NA ZASTARELOJ OPREMI OD PRE 50 GODINA BEZ OBZIRA NA STRUCNOST NASIH NAUCNIKA !!!


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PostPoslato: Pet Okt 27, 2006 10:44 am 
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Pridružio se: Sub Avg 27, 2005 10:52 pm
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natasino je napisao:
PREPUSTIMO ODLUKU PEDIJATRIMA i EVENTUALNO IH UPITAJMO CIME SU VAKCINISALI SVOJU DECU ?!


Ovo je najbolje što si mogla da napišeš. Što više doktora opštih, specijalnih, posebno pedijatara pitati ova pitanja. Naravno, ako budu želeli da odgovore iskreno. Moje iskustvo je da izbegavaju koliko mogu obavezne vakcine za sebe (obavezne zbog posla koji obavljaju), a deci ni ne pomišljaju da ih daju. Jedna zanimljivost Toni Bler je odbio da odgoori na pitanje da li je najmlađi član porodice vakcinisan. Zašto, ako su vakcine tako super? Buševa žena je takođe na fin način izbegla da odgovori na isto pitanje o njihovim ćerkama. Zašto! Ovo su samo dva detalja :wink:

I još jednom, natasino, u pravu si. Ko želi, smatra da je to jedino i najbolje, neka vakciniše. Ove moje primedbe su bile za one kojima instinkt govori drugačije, da postoji i druga strana medalje i da se mogu naći odgovori na pitanja, samo treba zakopati dublje od prve stranice :) Npr., onda iskopaš i ovo i još puno toga :(


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PostPoslato: Ned Okt 29, 2006 5:06 pm 
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Pridružio se: Pon Maj 02, 2005 10:18 am
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Nataš@ je napisao:
I još jednom, natasino, u pravu si. Ko želi, smatra da je to jedino i najbolje, neka vakciniše. Ove moje primedbe su bile za one kojima instinkt govori drugačije, da postoji i druga strana medalje i da se mogu naći odgovori na pitanja, samo treba zakopati dublje od prve stranice :)


Potpuno se slazem sa tobom, a natasino bi trebala da shvati da postoji i druga strana medalje, pa u njenoj profesiji je to naj ociglednije!


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PostPoslato: Ned Okt 29, 2006 8:53 pm 
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Pridružio se: Pon Dec 19, 2005 3:35 pm
Postovi: 355
Posto sam postao roditelj jedne devojcice,zeleo bih da nesto rezimiramo:
I ja bih hteo detetu da dam Pentaxim vakcinu(Euvax B je vec primila u porodilistu.Iznesite vi koji ste najinformisaniji i iskusniji,ZA i PROTIV,razloge za Pentaksim i klasicnu stariju varijantu vakcinacije.Takodje me interesuje da li je neophodno,obavezno ili bespotrebno popiti Polio oralno ako se primi Pentaxim?Iznesite stetne posledice gore pomenutih vakcina(koje ste mozda iskopali i na netu),cene istih, pa da imamo u dve tri poruke rezime prethodne 4 strane i da bi nama,novim roditeljima bilo lakse da donesemo odluku kako da postupimo.

Hvala vam puno


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PostPoslato: Pon Okt 30, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Pridružio se: Čet Jul 06, 2006 3:35 pm
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Postovani Nikola ,


umesto korisnog saveta , citajuci cetiri prethodne strane dobili ste mnostvo informacija koje ce Vas svakako dovesti u NEDOUMICU . Sve u zivotu ima svoje dobre i lose strane , pa tako i vakcine , bas kao i bolesti koje odredjene vakcine preveniraju . Obzirom da svi koji smo dobronamerno pristupili ovoj temi (barem vecina) NISMO UZE STRUCNI da Vam damo precizan , jasan i pre svega 100 % POUZDAN odgovor , iskreno Vam savetujem da se obratite PEDIJATRU za sve neophodne informacije . E , tu vec mozete napraviti selekciju pedijatara , jer nisu svi uze strucni za SVE oblasti medicine , tako da necete dobiti isti odgovor od pedijatra nutricioniste , fizijatra , dermatologa ili IMUNOLOGA , sto je i sasvim razumljivo !!! Ukoliko zelite da se obratite strucnjaku u oblasti virologije i imunologije , mozete to uciniti besplatno pozivom ili odlaskom u ZAVOD ZA ZASTITU ZDRAVLJA u BEOGRADU , najbolje je da trazite Dr. Kona , vrlo je fin i predusretliv covek ili recimo u privatnoj praksi kontaktirajte profesora Branislava Nestorovica (ordinacije Bel Medic , Dr. Zutic 3018333) ili ass. dr. Gorana Vukomanovica 3018333 , koji inace radi u Tirsovoj .

Kao sto ste verovatno primetili iz prethodnih postova ja sam pristalica IMUNIZACIJE DECE . Naravno da sam pre pristupanju imunizacije svoje dece izvagala sve DOBRE i LOSE strane vakcina , uz strucnu pomoc nekoliko razlicitih pedijatara i imunologa i odlucila se za PENTAXIM , EUVAX B i PREVENAR !!! TO U SVAKOM SLUCAJU NE ZNACI DA I VI TREBA TAKO DA POSTUPITE , VEC SAMO DA JE TO MOJ LICNI STAV .
Inace Pentaxim je dokazano manje reaktogena vakcina u odnosu na klasicnu varijantu , jednim ubodom dete dobija pet korisnih vakcina u jednoj i ne sadrzi ZIVU POLIO komponentu koja se dovodi u vezu sa Alchajmerovom bolesti (kao i MMR sa autizmom) . Nesto vise o bazicnim informacijama , a da nije na Engleskom jeziku mozete naci na sledecem linku http://www.cybermed.hr/index.php/pbl/po ... oje_dijete , pa dalje otvarajte linkove koji Vas zanimaju u oviru ovog site-a .

Inace , kao sto rece Vmilka u mojoj profesiji , dakle PRAVNICKOJ praksi , 1 i 1 gotovo nikada nisu 2 , bas kao i u medicini . Upravo to me svakodnevno ''tera'' da dobro zagrebem ''povrsinu'' i isteram stvar do kraja . ISHOD , ma kakav on bio NIKO mi ne moze garantovati , bez obzira na strucnost , znanje i iskustvo . Rizik i posledice , bas kao i glorifikaciju sopstvenog uspeha nastalog iz promisljenih odluka NOSIM sama !!! E , to Vam je ujedno i aluzija na VAKCINE ! IZBOR JE , KAO RODITELJA , SAMO VAS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Medicina je egzaktna nauka , a mi zaista nismo kompetentni da o njoj svojim laickim pristup i kopanjem po internetu dajemo sud . Omalovazavanjem stava jedni drugima sigurno necemo pomoci , a kamoli deci kojoj neke od ovih informacija mogu biti od zivotnog znacaja . Ovo nije politicka rasprava izmedju Prodija i Berluskonija , Kostunice i Tadica ... , niti je cilj da se neko ubedi u korisnost ili stetnost VAKCINA . CILJ JE VALJDA DA RAZMENIMO ISKUSTVA I POMOGNEMO NASOJ DECI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Uostalom , da li ste procitale Stefanijin vapaj za dobrim lekarom u Institutu za majku i dete ? Da li ste svesne da su patnja i bol ovog devetomesecnog andjela verovatno mogli biti izbegnuti vakcinacijom PREVENAROM koji je i namenjen deci do druge godine sa CILJEM da spreci infekcije izazvane streptoccocusom pneumoniae koji je glavni izazivac MENINGITISA u tom uzrastu ??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Da li znate i jedno dete u Vasoj okolini koje trpi neku posledicu VAKCINACIJE , DOKAZANO ?! Da li je trpite Vi , obzirom da ste svojevrsno i sami vakcinisani ?!


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PostPoslato: Pon Okt 30, 2006 1:07 pm 
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PODACI ZA ITALIJU


http://www.who.int/vaccines/globalsumma ... fm?C='ita'


i jos po nesto o Italiji

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5243a4.htm
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1090596


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